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Field of Glory: Renaissance

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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:47 pm

I'm no expert, but I did a bit of digging.

It would appear that one reason for the disappearance of the sword-and-buckler armed men was that as time went on, and with the increasing effectiveness of shot, the pike became less of an offensive weapon, and more of a defensive one against cavalry.

In which case, the need/ opportunity for soldiers to run out and slice up enemy pikemen in a pike-on-pike melee was no longer a common enough, or decisive enough, occurrence to justify equipping men specifically for that kind of fighting, especially by the time of the TYW/ ECW (that great scene from Alatriste notwithstanding).

Issuing them muskets instead of swords and bucklers would have been better bang for the Imperial buck- no pun intended.

Maurice of Nassau at the beginning of the 17th century tried to reintroduce these "targeteers", but the concept clearly looked better on paper than it was received in reality, and it's doubtful that many- if indeed, any- actually made an appearance outside of theoretical treatises of the time (which was probably how men armed with sword-and-bucklers found their way into a lot of the later artwork).

It is possible that some officers may have affected rodeleros equipment as a sign of rank and status, especially with such a fundamentally conservative army as was the Spanish. But this would be an individual choice, and is a far cry from representing a distinctive troop type.

Although it would be fun having an occasional and purely decorative- if anachronistically equipped- figure armed rodeleros style on a command stand, in keeping with the artistic conventions of the time.
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby bangorstu » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:31 am

Colunelas are handled badly by FoG - most people seem to bunch them in pairs for maximum effect... though that is more or less what the Spanish did in nay case when forming a tercio.

I've played Late Imperial Spanish. from what I remember you need to get stuck in with your Tercios - and grind away. Artillery is, obviously, a complete pain if it gets lucky, but if can't fire at you once engaged.

The cavalry can be a bit 'meh' - certainly don't get your aristocratic light lancers anywhere near anything remotely dangerous..
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:00 am

bangorstu wrote:The cavalry can be a bit 'meh' - certainly don't get your aristocratic light lancers anywhere near anything remotely dangerous..


No lancers; my list postdates them. Initially, I'm working through a box full of miniatures including four horse regiments:

4 bases-- Caballos corazas-- Horse -- Hvy Armd -- Superior -- Imp. Pistol -- Melee Pistol (Spanish fops & hidalgos)

4 bases-- Caballos corazas -- Horse -- Armoured -- Superior -- Imp. Pistol -- Melee Pistol (dashing Alsatians)

4 bases-- Caballos corazas -- Dt Horse -- Armoured -- Superior -- Imp. Pistol -- Melee Pistol (very dashing Lorrainers)

6 bases-- Mtd. Arquebusiers -- Horse -- Armoured -- Average -- Shoot. Carbine -- Melee Pistol (less-than-dashing Bavarians or Walloons)

I also have three stands' worth of dragoons, and may indulge in a dozen of the TAG Croat light horse at a later date. I already have another regiment of fully armoured cuirassiers in the wings; these can be German mercenaries, or else end up converting to Protestantism- or at least applying for French passports.

The Spanish infantry won't lack "oomph': initially, the plan is for one elite, two superior, and two average 6-base pike & shot units, plus four stands of commanded shot.

It's the grunts who will be winning my battles.
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby bangorstu » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:34 pm

Elite Shot is a thing of beauty....

Things that are merely armoured however need to be wary of things covered in more tin. Possibly not so much of an issue in the later periods but in the Tercio era it's an issue.
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Ronan the Librarian » Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:26 pm

Under the new rule amendments, if the enemy's armour trumps yours (eg he's FA, you're just HA, or he's HA, you're just A) then you either lose 1 level of your re-roll status (eg Superior with general only re-roll 1s, not 1s and 2s) or - if no re-roll status - you drop a morale level, so Average without a general effectively becomes Poor for the purposes of this combat and you have to re-roll any 6s.

Luckily, I never roll 6s anyway.....
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:50 am

Well, unless someone over here decides to be a sport and plump for a NMA starter set, or else has a hankering for some of those new plastic Landsknechts, it's looking probable that I'll have to provide the opposition.

Most likely a Weimarian army with French allies (Dutch have great flags, but a boring army list).

No Gendarmes to give me sleepless nights; in which case I think my biggest worry as a Spanish player won't be so much the horse, but the battalion guns- another reason for the foot to get to close quarters as quickly as possible.

Dragoons could be useful here, as could light cavalry.
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:25 am

Ronan the Librarian wrote:Under the new rule amendments, if the enemy's armour trumps yours (eg he's FA, you're just HA, or he's HA, you're just A) then you either lose 1 level of your re-roll status (eg Superior with general only re-roll 1s, not 1s and 2s) or - if no re-roll status - you drop a morale level, so Average without a general effectively becomes Poor for the purposes of this combat and you have to re-roll any 6s.

Luckily, I never roll 6s anyway.....


Another revision is, I see, commanded musketeers being represented by markers rather than actual stands. This could be fun from a modeling perspective, but I'll probably get more mileage from my miniatures if I just stick to using one or more of the 60mm x 30mm standard musketeer bases.

And no one seems to do readily-available 17th C. heavy pikemen in 3/4 armour- all the ones I've come across so far have unprotected arms. I may have to break out the epoxy putty for some more complex conversions for my elite Tercio.
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Ronan the Librarian » Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:38 am

The 2nd Generation Minifigs Renaissance range had all sorts of armoured pikemen, but sadly that was 15mm so no use to you. They even had guys in baggy hose that looked like inflated jodphurs!
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:13 am

I only need a few, so the easiest solution may be to dismember and modify some Wars of the Roses figures for the arms, add them to some pikemen bodies and hide any resulting wonky-looking bits with cloaks and/or floppy hats fashioned from epoxy putty.
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Sun Jul 16, 2017 2:56 am

Well, it looks like the Ejército de Flandes may be given orders to make peace with the Dutch, keep the French at bay in the Low Countries with fortresses manned by second-line garrison troops, and send an expeditionary force down the Spanish Road to prop up the Holy See itself.

I rooted out my TAG Ottoman Turks, and found I had more than I realized; enough for two BG's each of Janissaries and Sipahis, along with the three stand's worth of Tüfekçis.

This opens the door to some very different games based on contemporary "what if's", with the Spanish and Papal forces up against a (very unholy) alliance of France, the Ottoman Porte and the army of Odoardo Farnese, Duke of Parma.

While far-fetched, this actually has a certain plausibility given the personalities and pragmatic politics involved (alliteration unintended). And it could be fun.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odoardo ... e_of_Parma

At one point in time being excommunicated by the Catholic Church, Farnese was the Kim Jong-Un of the TYW, in more ways than one.

Image

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wars_of_Castro

God, I love this era, and this hobby. :twisted:
"So long as men worship the Caesars and Napoleons, Caesars and Napoleons will duly arise and make them miserable."
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Ronan the Librarian » Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:46 pm

Stavka wrote:This opens the door to some very different games based on contemporary "what if's", with the Spanish and Papal forces up against a (very unholy) alliance of France, the Ottoman Porte and the army of Odoardo Farnese, Duke of Parma.

While far-fetched, this actually has a certain plausibility given the personalities and pragmatic politics involved (alliteration unintended). And it could be fun.


I may be thinking of 16C rather than 17C, but didn't the French allow the Turks to "winter over" in Toulon, or one of their other southern ports?

Oh, btw - Mad Max and his boys in blue came 4th out of 10 in the Devizes 900-point 1690s FoGR competition this weekend. A draw and three narrow wins (including 11-9 over one of the two joint runners-up), all of which would only have improved in my favour, had the games gone on longer. Far and away the best competition result I've ever had; even #1 son, who only started playing FoGR in January, managed a fighting 10-10 draw in his last game (both armies auto-breaking in the same phase) and though he finished joint last, the other last-placer had a much easier set of opponents in his four games.
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:05 am

Well done, the cornflowers. Let's all drain tankards and slap our bare knees in a victory dance.

Good to see the dice-rolling improving.

Still love to see pics of your figures. Which armies were you up against?
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Ronan the Librarian » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:33 am

Yep, pigs trotters and sauerkraut all round. Worst Sunday roast I've ever had.....

We had two Bavarians, three LoA Anglo-Dutch, three Habsburg Imperial Austrians (Western option), and two Later Louis XIV (both technically illegal as the tournament administrator had limited all armies to a mx of 2 elite/superior cavalry and the French must have at least two superior, not counting the elite). So not a wide range of opponents, but at 900 points, there is enough variety in the army lists to produce something more than wall-to-wall shooters and mounted worth using as more than just rear support. I played an Anglo-Dutch (10-10), an Austrian (13-7), a French (11-9) and the other Bavarian (11-9). Bizarrely, my dice were pretty appalling in shooting - although unusually for me, my artillery actually did some damage (I think based on the experience of previous tournaments, my gunners just threw stuff at the enemy), but ok in melee. Last game, I was one attrition point off breaking him, which would have brought me up to joint second.

To be fair, my painting has deteriorated enormously during my 20-year lay-off. I was going to photograph the army (especially given the results), but it took a lot of damage over the weekend - a lot of mounted figures "dismounted", some foot guys went AWOL, flags became detached, etc etc, and quite a bit of the terrain (sand/glue mix) came off. They'll have one more outing before the end of the year, and I will re-base them over the winter, at which point I promise I shall photograph them. Part of the problem is the metal bases, which are spray-painted black all over, so you have to scratch it off before you can glue figures on, otherwise it's just paint-to-paint (which is not strong). I've had a word with the manufacturer and he's now sent me another set of bases with no paint on one side. Now I just have to remember to glue the figures to the unpainted side......
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Tue Jul 18, 2017 7:47 am

Metal bases look good when new; but the paint does chip, they add weight, and any exposed metal will quickly start to rust in this climate. And I prefer my bratwurst-like digits to handle the bases rather than the figures.

So is FoG:R still being played much there in tournaments? Or is it starting to wind down, now that ADLG apparently has a renaissance set on the way.

I'm thinking of getting another copy of the rules as a back-up.

Current blutacking some Sipahis to bases. The coming weekend I'll see how they would fare against Spanish pike & shot and/or cuirassiers.
"So long as men worship the Caesars and Napoleons, Caesars and Napoleons will duly arise and make them miserable."
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Stavka » Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:49 am

Ronan the Librarian wrote:The 2nd Generation Minifigs Renaissance range had all sorts of armoured pikemen, but sadly that was 15mm so no use to you. They even had guys in baggy hose that looked like inflated jodphurs!


I wanted some for my piqueros, so I puffed out the breeches with epoxy putty.

Image

Always liked the Minifigs 2nd Gen. lines- why they took them all out of production I'll never understand. :zap:
"So long as men worship the Caesars and Napoleons, Caesars and Napoleons will duly arise and make them miserable."
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Re: Field of Glory: Renaissance

Postby Ronan the Librarian » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:24 pm

Stavka wrote:Metal bases look good when new; but the paint does chip, they add weight, and any exposed metal will quickly start to rust in this climate. And I prefer my bratwurst-like digits to handle the bases rather than the figures.


Not owned them long enough to experience that, but they are great for storing figures - an A4 box file holds 800-900 points easily in 15mm (you'd need two for the same in 28mm). Mostly we play on flat tables, so you can usually push a group of bases around; once you get on the "battle mat" type of surface it's a bit more problematic.

Stavka wrote:So is FoG:R still being played much there in tournaments? Or is it starting to wind down, now that ADLG apparently has a renaissance set on the way.


Towards the end of last year, it looked like it was dying out - especially when all of the authors "jumped ship" and started playing LGBT or whatever it's called. The Devizes committee was looking to drop FoGR this year, but a chap called Bob Medcraft (the owner of "the other Bavarians") and I stepped in and drummed up enough support to get it re-instated (we're now definitely in for 2018 as well). I've heard that there is another Renaissance set on the way, but everyone at my club, and a significant proportion of external players, think FoGR is a good set and have enough invested in it to keep it going.

Stavka wrote:Always liked the Minifigs 2nd Gen. lines- why they took them all out of production I'll never understand. :zap:


Testify, Brother Stav!!!
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